31 талант ветки - обсуждение  
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
MrPakistan писал(а):

В Катаклизме буду играть дабл хил в комбате :lol


Вары уже будут не очень =)))все будут искать себе комбат рогуев=))


16 июл 2010, 13:16
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
MentalSickness писал(а):

Я слышал, что если вкачать 1 талант в ветку, то вы сразу получите 3 бонса этой ветки. Правда?
Например: Вкачал в комбат и получил
* Dual Wield Specialization (+offhand damage)
* Blade Fury
* Vitality (+energy regen)

Если вкачать в 2 ветки таланты? 6 Бонусов будет что-ли?

я думаю имелось ввиду вкачать ветку полностью, а не взять в ветке 2-3 таланта.


16 июл 2010, 13:45
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
MentalSickness писал(а):

Я слышал, что если вкачать 1 талант в ветку, то вы сразу получите 3 бонса этой ветки. Правда?
Например: Вкачал в комбат и получил
* Dual Wield Specialization (+offhand damage)
* Blade Fury
* Vitality (+energy regen)

Если вкачать в 2 ветки таланты? 6 Бонусов будет что-ли?

Будет предложено выбрать одну из трёх специализаций в качестве основной. Бонусы будут иммено от этой специализации.


18 июл 2010, 12:56
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
напишите обзор плс


18 июл 2010, 15:49
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение


19 июл 2010, 16:36
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
I really don't know what Litreocola was smoking in his preview! If anything I thought the combat tree is by far the weakest of the three trees. We have to remember Cataclysm removed all anti-CC talents. -30% damage during stuns? Gone. -Fear/snare duration? No more. Throw in longer matches, mobility will be a premium again.

0 energy (I doubt it will stay that way, the gouge glyph will probably be changed) 6 second gouge sounds great, but no decent team (BG or Arena) will allow a free restealth and without mobility, you are not going to be able to take advantage of the gouge much at all. Heck you will have a hard time getting to a healer to gouge him and get back to your target to do damage! In addition, unless they add a glyph that makes killing spree single target, combat tree still has zero burst. Killing spree is just way too flaky of a move outside of 2v2. 7.2 second kidney shot sounds good, but sinister strike is just a very outdated move, you are not going to be able to do much during that stun and without mobility you can't land that stun reliably. A shadowstep -> redirect -> 6 second kidney shot is going to be vastly superior than a 7.2 second kidney shot you can't land on demand.

Unless they lower prep/elusiveness so combat/assassination can get them, subtlety is by far our best bet. Mutilate without prep just doesn't sound that appealing to me. It doesn't matter how slow the pace of the game is, we are not going to be a protection paladin and walk toward someone all game, trying to smack them down with attacks that ignore armor. It will be a great spec to pull out in a LAN situation when you know you need to sit on someone all game next match and that someone is heavy armor, but it is not going to be our all around spec when it doesn't offer anything different than hunger for blood of today. This is not even TBC we are talking about, when mutilate hero XOM dominated with classic mutilate and his euro 5v5 comp. Mutilate had/has great poison protection, which is far less of a benefit in Cataclysm when your wound poison debuff is only -20%. Its lack of mobility will be magnified in longer games.

As it is today, I can't imagine how subtlety won't be the top spec. There is a saying when you buff a move over and over and over again, it will actually be good. Envenom was garbage for most of its existence and it became our best PVP addition in WOTLK. I believe they will eventually make backstab a dominant move and with 3/3 lethality, 30% from opportunity, 40 energy, free physical snare debuff, we are very close already. Heck Kalimist swears by it and made it to the European regionals with it, that is without a single point in lethality for the highest crit chance combo point generator. Did anyone see the new improved ambush? +60% crit chance and +15% damage! Wow! And resilience will no longer reduce crit chance reduction! That alone is the single biggest buff for ambush/backstab, when those moves simply need to crit to be effective.

But that is not all, Blizzard promised more subtlety damage buffs, especially vs plate armor.

Q. What's the plan to give Subtlety some pressure versus plate? A slow-ticking Rupture isn't going to cut it. Shadow damage during Dance?

A. That’s an interesting idea. Subtlety is probably going to end up as the lowest-damage of
the three rogue specializations to make up for its superior mobility, but that doesn’t mean it's harmless, either. And no, Rupture isn’t intended to be the PvP solution to that situation.


To be honest, with double wound (waylay snare debuff is sufficient if you have another DPS on your team that can snare, especially with 20 second shadowstep and the debuff lasting full 8 seconds against everyone), max bleed talents, two 1.8 daggers, deep subtlety already does decent sustained damage vs heavy armor. If they add a little more (enveloping shadows sounds like the perfect talent to rework) damage against heavy armor targets, and change initiative to dirty deed, we will have one of the strongest 10/0/31 builds of all classes. There are so many ways they can do this. Add a conflag like move to turn an entire rupture into instant bleed damage. Change enveloping shadows to add some shadow damage. I am sure we will get something.

And I believe we already have the best new class abilities. Self healing may not look impressive with WOTLK gear, but I guarantee you it will make a huge difference once we have 50-60K health pools. And smoke bomb if they keep the design as is, will be a game changer.

I love the new 31 talent design as the old trees were just way too bloated. Each talent point really should feel powerful. With the WOTLK talent tree, you can swap 3 points of a DPS talent for a survivability talent (find weakness for deadened nerves for example), and barely feel the difference! They didn't have time to rework all the low value talents in their first attempt, I am sure by the end of the beta, every tier is going to be stuffed with valuable talents, you will simply have to give up something that feels mandatory today to get something more important to your playing style.


20 июл 2010, 18:16
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m8ke писал(а):

I really don't know what Litreocola was smoking in his preview! If anything I thought the combat tree is by far the weakest of the three trees. We have to remember Cataclysm removed all anti-CC talents. -30% damage during stuns? Gone. -Fear/snare duration? No more. Throw in longer matches, mobility will be a premium again.

0 energy (I doubt it will stay that way, the gouge glyph will probably be changed) 6 second gouge sounds great, but no decent team (BG or Arena) will allow a free restealth and without mobility, you are not going to be able to take advantage of the gouge much at all. Heck you will have a hard time getting to a healer to gouge him and get back to your target to do damage! In addition, unless they add a glyph that makes killing spree single target, combat tree still has zero burst. Killing spree is just way too flaky of a move outside of 2v2. 7.2 second kidney shot sounds good, but sinister strike is just a very outdated move, you are not going to be able to do much during that stun and without mobility you can't land that stun reliably. A shadowstep -> redirect -> 6 second kidney shot is going to be vastly superior than a 7.2 second kidney shot you can't land on demand.

Unless they lower prep/elusiveness so combat/assassination can get them, subtlety is by far our best bet. Mutilate without prep just doesn't sound that appealing to me. It doesn't matter how slow the pace of the game is, we are not going to be a protection paladin and walk toward someone all game, trying to smack them down with attacks that ignore armor. It will be a great spec to pull out in a LAN situation when you know you need to sit on someone all game next match and that someone is heavy armor, but it is not going to be our all around spec when it doesn't offer anything different than hunger for blood of today. This is not even TBC we are talking about, when mutilate hero XOM dominated with classic mutilate and his euro 5v5 comp. Mutilate had/has great poison protection, which is far less of a benefit in Cataclysm when your wound poison debuff is only -20%. Its lack of mobility will be magnified in longer games.

As it is today, I can't imagine how subtlety won't be the top spec. There is a saying when you buff a move over and over and over again, it will actually be good. Envenom was garbage for most of its existence and it became our best PVP addition in WOTLK. I believe they will eventually make backstab a dominant move and with 3/3 lethality, 30% from opportunity, 40 energy, free physical snare debuff, we are very close already. Heck Kalimist swears by it and made it to the European regionals with it, that is without a single point in lethality for the highest crit chance combo point generator. Did anyone see the new improved ambush? +60% crit chance and +15% damage! Wow! And resilience will no longer reduce crit chance reduction! That alone is the single biggest buff for ambush/backstab, when those moves simply need to crit to be effective.

But that is not all, Blizzard promised more subtlety damage buffs, especially vs plate armor.

Q. What's the plan to give Subtlety some pressure versus plate? A slow-ticking Rupture isn't going to cut it. Shadow damage during Dance?

A. That’s an interesting idea. Subtlety is probably going to end up as the lowest-damage of
the three rogue specializations to make up for its superior mobility, but that doesn’t mean it's harmless, either. And no, Rupture isn’t intended to be the PvP solution to that situation.


To be honest, with double wound (waylay snare debuff is sufficient if you have another DPS on your team that can snare, especially with 20 second shadowstep and the debuff lasting full 8 seconds against everyone), max bleed talents, two 1.8 daggers, deep subtlety already does decent sustained damage vs heavy armor. If they add a little more (enveloping shadows sounds like the perfect talent to rework) damage against heavy armor targets, and change initiative to dirty deed, we will have one of the strongest 10/0/31 builds of all classes. There are so many ways they can do this. Add a conflag like move to turn an entire rupture into instant bleed damage. Change enveloping shadows to add some shadow damage. I am sure we will get something.

And I believe we already have the best new class abilities. Self healing may not look impressive with WOTLK gear, but I guarantee you it will make a huge difference once we have 50-60K health pools. And smoke bomb if they keep the design as is, will be a game changer.

I love the new 31 talent design as the old trees were just way too bloated. Each talent point really should feel powerful. With the WOTLK talent tree, you can swap 3 points of a DPS talent for a survivability talent (find weakness for deadened nerves for example), and barely feel the difference! They didn't have time to rework all the low value talents in their first attempt, I am sure by the end of the beta, every tier is going to be stuffed with valuable talents, you will simply have to give up something that feels mandatory today to get something more important to your playing style.



мона перевод?


20 июл 2010, 22:58
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
качайте варов :D


20 июл 2010, 23:03
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
Риттмик писал(а):

m8ke писал(а):

I really don't know what Litreocola was smoking in his preview! If anything I thought the combat tree is by far the weakest of the three trees. We have to remember Cataclysm removed all anti-CC talents. -30% damage during stuns? Gone. -Fear/snare duration? No more. Throw in longer matches, mobility will be a premium again.

0 energy (I doubt it will stay that way, the gouge glyph will probably be changed) 6 second gouge sounds great, but no decent team (BG or Arena) will allow a free restealth and without mobility, you are not going to be able to take advantage of the gouge much at all. Heck you will have a hard time getting to a healer to gouge him and get back to your target to do damage! In addition, unless they add a glyph that makes killing spree single target, combat tree still has zero burst. Killing spree is just way too flaky of a move outside of 2v2. 7.2 second kidney shot sounds good, but sinister strike is just a very outdated move, you are not going to be able to do much during that stun and without mobility you can't land that stun reliably. A shadowstep -> redirect -> 6 second kidney shot is going to be vastly superior than a 7.2 second kidney shot you can't land on demand.

Unless they lower prep/elusiveness so combat/assassination can get them, subtlety is by far our best bet. Mutilate without prep just doesn't sound that appealing to me. It doesn't matter how slow the pace of the game is, we are not going to be a protection paladin and walk toward someone all game, trying to smack them down with attacks that ignore armor. It will be a great spec to pull out in a LAN situation when you know you need to sit on someone all game next match and that someone is heavy armor, but it is not going to be our all around spec when it doesn't offer anything different than hunger for blood of today. This is not even TBC we are talking about, when mutilate hero XOM dominated with classic mutilate and his euro 5v5 comp. Mutilate had/has great poison protection, which is far less of a benefit in Cataclysm when your wound poison debuff is only -20%. Its lack of mobility will be magnified in longer games.

As it is today, I can't imagine how subtlety won't be the top spec. There is a saying when you buff a move over and over and over again, it will actually be good. Envenom was garbage for most of its existence and it became our best PVP addition in WOTLK. I believe they will eventually make backstab a dominant move and with 3/3 lethality, 30% from opportunity, 40 energy, free physical snare debuff, we are very close already. Heck Kalimist swears by it and made it to the European regionals with it, that is without a single point in lethality for the highest crit chance combo point generator. Did anyone see the new improved ambush? +60% crit chance and +15% damage! Wow! And resilience will no longer reduce crit chance reduction! That alone is the single biggest buff for ambush/backstab, when those moves simply need to crit to be effective.

But that is not all, Blizzard promised more subtlety damage buffs, especially vs plate armor.

Q. What's the plan to give Subtlety some pressure versus plate? A slow-ticking Rupture isn't going to cut it. Shadow damage during Dance?

A. That’s an interesting idea. Subtlety is probably going to end up as the lowest-damage of
the three rogue specializations to make up for its superior mobility, but that doesn’t mean it's harmless, either. And no, Rupture isn’t intended to be the PvP solution to that situation.


To be honest, with double wound (waylay snare debuff is sufficient if you have another DPS on your team that can snare, especially with 20 second shadowstep and the debuff lasting full 8 seconds against everyone), max bleed talents, two 1.8 daggers, deep subtlety already does decent sustained damage vs heavy armor. If they add a little more (enveloping shadows sounds like the perfect talent to rework) damage against heavy armor targets, and change initiative to dirty deed, we will have one of the strongest 10/0/31 builds of all classes. There are so many ways they can do this. Add a conflag like move to turn an entire rupture into instant bleed damage. Change enveloping shadows to add some shadow damage. I am sure we will get something.

And I believe we already have the best new class abilities. Self healing may not look impressive with WOTLK gear, but I guarantee you it will make a huge difference once we have 50-60K health pools. And smoke bomb if they keep the design as is, will be a game changer.

I love the new 31 talent design as the old trees were just way too bloated. Each talent point really should feel powerful. With the WOTLK talent tree, you can swap 3 points of a DPS talent for a survivability talent (find weakness for deadened nerves for example), and barely feel the difference! They didn't have time to rework all the low value talents in their first attempt, I am sure by the end of the beta, every tier is going to be stuffed with valuable talents, you will simply have to give up something that feels mandatory today to get something more important to your playing style.



мона перевод?

Шестисекундные гоуджи без енергии (я сомневаюсь что так можно говорить, ибо глиф скорее всего сменят) звучит круто, но любая хорошая команда (на бг или арене) не позволит свободно делать рестел и без мобильности ты не сможешь вычерпать. всё преимущество данного таланта. В общем неудобно будет гоуджить хилера и бежать обратно демажить свою цель. В добавок, если они не сделают глиф на килинг спри, который работает на один таргет, комбат по прежнему имеет нулевой бурст. Килинг спри очень неудобная абилка, что бы юзать её где то кроме 2х2. 7.2с киднейшоты звучит конечно круто, но синесен страйк уж слишком устарелое движение, ты не сможешь сделать слишком много пока твоя цель в стане, а без мобильности ты не сможешь нормально(вовремя етк.) станить противника. Шадоустеп - редирект (новая абилка, переносящяя кп с прошлой цели на текущую) - фул кидней будет значительно круче чем 7.2с киднеи, которые ты ещё и не в состоянии юзать в нужный момент (имеется ввиду мобильность опять же).
Дальше он пишет что, до тех пор пока преп не будет доступен комбату/асасинейшн ветке, саблети лучший выбор.
Пишет о том что мути мб будет работать на ланах, там где ты знаешь что за противник против тебя и что ты будешь тунелить 1 цель 24/7. Так же сила мути в ядах, а на кой хер сдались эти яды если ваунд в аддоне 20% всего.
Так же минг надеется что бафнут бэкстаб что бы он стал основной абилкой для саба, хотя с 3/3 леталити, 30% с опортунити, костом в 40 енерджи, бесплатным физ. замедлением он уже достаточно силён. Советует обратить внимание на новый improved ambush талант (60% крита и 15% демага). По сколько рез больше не уменьшет шанс крита амбуш будет ебашить.
Кто то спрашивает что саб слабо бьёт хэвиармор цели и раптура это не пофиксит, предлагает сделать шадоу демаг во время шадоуденса, близард пишет что подумает (лол).
В общем с дабл ваундом (если в тиме есть ещё кто то кто может замедлить), шсом, двумя 1.8 дагерами, а так же надеждой на то что близард чутка бафнут демаг против хэвиармора 10/0/31 будет сильнейшим билдом из всех класов.
+новая хил абилка ебашит

переводил сразу, так что где то что то может быть криво


21 июл 2010, 00:57
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
в мути http://db.mmo-champion.com/s/31380/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; нече так -10%дд


21 июл 2010, 10:55
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
так же близы сказали что на данный момент шд ветка ниносит немного меньше дамага чем остальные ветки, но это компенсируется мобильностью...


21 июл 2010, 10:56
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
Риттмик писал(а):

m8ke писал(а):

I really don't know what Litreocola was smoking in his preview! If anything I thought the combat tree is by far the weakest of the three trees. We have to remember Cataclysm removed all anti-CC talents. -30% damage during stuns? Gone. -Fear/snare duration? No more. Throw in longer matches, mobility will be a premium again.

0 energy (I doubt it will stay that way, the gouge glyph will probably be changed) 6 second gouge sounds great, but no decent team (BG or Arena) will allow a free restealth and without mobility, you are not going to be able to take advantage of the gouge much at all. Heck you will have a hard time getting to a healer to gouge him and get back to your target to do damage! In addition, unless they add a glyph that makes killing spree single target, combat tree still has zero burst. Killing spree is just way too flaky of a move outside of 2v2. 7.2 second kidney shot sounds good, but sinister strike is just a very outdated move, you are not going to be able to do much during that stun and without mobility you can't land that stun reliably. A shadowstep -> redirect -> 6 second kidney shot is going to be vastly superior than a 7.2 second kidney shot you can't land on demand.

Unless they lower prep/elusiveness so combat/assassination can get them, subtlety is by far our best bet. Mutilate without prep just doesn't sound that appealing to me. It doesn't matter how slow the pace of the game is, we are not going to be a protection paladin and walk toward someone all game, trying to smack them down with attacks that ignore armor. It will be a great spec to pull out in a LAN situation when you know you need to sit on someone all game next match and that someone is heavy armor, but it is not going to be our all around spec when it doesn't offer anything different than hunger for blood of today. This is not even TBC we are talking about, when mutilate hero XOM dominated with classic mutilate and his euro 5v5 comp. Mutilate had/has great poison protection, which is far less of a benefit in Cataclysm when your wound poison debuff is only -20%. Its lack of mobility will be magnified in longer games.

As it is today, I can't imagine how subtlety won't be the top spec. There is a saying when you buff a move over and over and over again, it will actually be good. Envenom was garbage for most of its existence and it became our best PVP addition in WOTLK. I believe they will eventually make backstab a dominant move and with 3/3 lethality, 30% from opportunity, 40 energy, free physical snare debuff, we are very close already. Heck Kalimist swears by it and made it to the European regionals with it, that is without a single point in lethality for the highest crit chance combo point generator. Did anyone see the new improved ambush? +60% crit chance and +15% damage! Wow! And resilience will no longer reduce crit chance reduction! That alone is the single biggest buff for ambush/backstab, when those moves simply need to crit to be effective.

But that is not all, Blizzard promised more subtlety damage buffs, especially vs plate armor.

Q. What's the plan to give Subtlety some pressure versus plate? A slow-ticking Rupture isn't going to cut it. Shadow damage during Dance?

A. That’s an interesting idea. Subtlety is probably going to end up as the lowest-damage of
the three rogue specializations to make up for its superior mobility, but that doesn’t mean it's harmless, either. And no, Rupture isn’t intended to be the PvP solution to that situation.


To be honest, with double wound (waylay snare debuff is sufficient if you have another DPS on your team that can snare, especially with 20 second shadowstep and the debuff lasting full 8 seconds against everyone), max bleed talents, two 1.8 daggers, deep subtlety already does decent sustained damage vs heavy armor. If they add a little more (enveloping shadows sounds like the perfect talent to rework) damage against heavy armor targets, and change initiative to dirty deed, we will have one of the strongest 10/0/31 builds of all classes. There are so many ways they can do this. Add a conflag like move to turn an entire rupture into instant bleed damage. Change enveloping shadows to add some shadow damage. I am sure we will get something.

And I believe we already have the best new class abilities. Self healing may not look impressive with WOTLK gear, but I guarantee you it will make a huge difference once we have 50-60K health pools. And smoke bomb if they keep the design as is, will be a game changer.

I love the new 31 talent design as the old trees were just way too bloated. Each talent point really should feel powerful. With the WOTLK talent tree, you can swap 3 points of a DPS talent for a survivability talent (find weakness for deadened nerves for example), and barely feel the difference! They didn't have time to rework all the low value talents in their first attempt, I am sure by the end of the beta, every tier is going to be stuffed with valuable talents, you will simply have to give up something that feels mandatory today to get something more important to your playing style.



мона перевод?

Если кратко, то по мнению Минга саб ветка в нынешнем её виде будет самой эффективной в первую очередь благодаря мобильности. При условии бафа дамаги против платы мы будем иметь один из самых сильных билдов среди всех классов.



Assassination

Venomous Wounds now also gives you a chance to regain 3/6 Energy.
Focused Attacks is gone.
Master Poisoner is now a single rank talent - Increases the spell damage taken by any target you have poisoned by 8%, your Envenom has a 100% chance not to consume Deadly Poison, and the duration of all Poison effects applied to you is reduced by 50%.
Murderous Intent is now a Tier 5 Talent. Up from Tier 4.
Deadly Momentum now increases the critical chance of your next attack by 40% at both ranks.
Deadened Nerves now reduces damage taken by 3/7/10%. (Up from 2/4/6%)

Subtlety

Shadowstep no increases the damage of your next Ambush or Garrote. (Old - Increased the damage of the next ability)
Redirect *New* - Transfers any existing combo points to the current enemy target. / 40 yd range, Instant, 1 min cooldown


21 июл 2010, 12:26
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
Походу близы не спешат бафать дамаг шедоуденса. Мути вроде неплохо апнули, надеюсь Venomous Wounds сможет хотя бы частично заменить FA.


21 июл 2010, 13:32
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
хз сомневаюсь, что близы прикрутят шадоу дамаг при юзе шадоу денса, скорее всего прикрутят 40-60% арп, если прикрутят ж)


21 июл 2010, 18:40
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
Увы, Амбуш после шс понерфили(


21 июл 2010, 19:40
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
WookeeLOL писал(а):

Увы, Амбуш после шс понерфили(

оп же :D


21 июл 2010, 19:56
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
ну да+/


21 июл 2010, 20:39
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
Пока без изменений препа (неясно пока что именно они с ним сделают), редирейк - фокус шс - фокус кидней уж очень жирно мне кажется, особенно в тиме с локом, где всё дотается и гниёт.
Но имхо строить какие то предположение - это так, развлекуха-веселуха. Всё равно близы поменяют все ветки по 300 раз ещё.


21 июл 2010, 23:43
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
WookeeLOL писал(а):

Увы, Амбуш после шс понерфили(

Думаю там опечатка и имелось в виду следующее: Shadowstep now increases the damage of your next Ambush or Garrote. (Old - Increased the damage of the next ability)


22 июл 2010, 00:16
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Сообщение Re: 31 талант ветки - обсуждение
мб они хотели этим сказать, дамажте евиками после шса ? %)


22 июл 2010, 03:02
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