460448868 (14:57:00 16/11/2009)
btw

460448868 (14:57:03 16/11/2009)
got a few mins?

Niral (14:57:06 16/11/2009)
yeah

460448868 (14:59:03 16/11/2009)
have you heard about a conflict between your two teammates from ESL?

Niral (14:59:12 16/11/2009)
nope

460448868 (14:59:41 16/11/2009)
Seriously, Ainy didn't tell a single word to you after you've finished playing?

Niral (15:00:07 16/11/2009)
well he told me that kain wanted to have some team disqualified

Niral (15:00:24 16/11/2009)
by having us play on the next round instead of leaving

460448868 (15:00:38 16/11/2009)
so why not play?

Niral (15:01:15 16/11/2009)
by leaving now the rank9 team can get into the tournament, since we could not go to the lan rounds anyway

Niral (15:01:30 16/11/2009)
I believe thats the conflict?

460448868 (15:02:39 16/11/2009)
well

460448868 (15:02:45 16/11/2009)
it's a long story yeah

Niral (15:03:01 16/11/2009)
anyhow, as I told ainy I dont really care about the drama :P

Niral (15:03:11 16/11/2009)
I told him to sort it out with kain

Niral (15:03:20 16/11/2009)
I will agree to whatever they decide

460448868 (15:03:50 16/11/2009)
but well, are you aware that you could win money even without going to LAN finals?

460448868 (15:03:56 16/11/2009)
it's 150$ per win afaik

460448868 (15:04:06 16/11/2009)
at offline round 2

Niral (15:04:20 16/11/2009)
thing is we cant go to any lan event

460448868 (15:04:29 16/11/2009)
yeah, why's that? :>

Niral (15:05:40 16/11/2009)
several reasons actually, economical (as far as I know we have to pay for tha travel expenses by ourselves unless we win) and technical (addons addons addons)

460448868 (15:07:28 16/11/2009)
well, as I said - you'd win some money just by qualifying for LANs (by beating other teams) and there was also a point that Kain could help with your financial problem a bit.... And addons is not a serious problem to be considered

460448868 (15:07:50 16/11/2009)
for example, the rogue from that rank 9 team plays with shitloads of addons and 30" monitor

Niral (15:07:53 16/11/2009)
it is for me, I havent played with default interface in ages

460448868 (15:08:45 16/11/2009)
Well, still you'd like to go to the LANs I guess?.. It's only a matter of time, 2 days training on live with defaults and voila

Niral (15:08:45 16/11/2009)
I wouldnt want to go and play like an idiot

Niral (15:10:33 16/11/2009)
there is also a psychological reason, I'm not very comfortable going abroad

Niral (15:12:28 16/11/2009)
I said it from the start that the main reason I would want to get into the top8 in esl would be for epeen

Niral (15:12:36 16/11/2009)
nothing else really :P

460448868 (15:12:45 16/11/2009)
And what about teammates?

Niral (15:13:06 16/11/2009)
I said it to all of them

Niral (15:13:25 16/11/2009)
noone disagreed

460448868 (15:13:38 16/11/2009)
So may I say that you're the main reason they declined to go further?

Niral (15:14:16 16/11/2009)
I dont know what ainy thinks or how he feels about it, but I'd imagine we are in agreement on this

Niral (15:15:19 16/11/2009)
but anyhow I dont think the drama is about whether we will continue or not

Niral (15:15:41 16/11/2009)
I think its about whether we will disqualify the teams below us by agreeing to continue and not going

Niral (15:15:48 16/11/2009)
team*

460448868 (15:16:06 16/11/2009)
Well, you don't know all the truth tbh :P

Niral (15:16:20 16/11/2009)
if we are even eligible that is, remember we didnt have real accounts in esl

Niral (15:16:59 16/11/2009)
but that would be up to the esl organizers anyhow

Niral (15:17:18 16/11/2009)
what am I missing about the drama :P

Niral (15:17:21 16/11/2009)
I mean what part of truth

460448868 (15:17:25 16/11/2009)
yeah well, but it's sortable probably, esl isn't blizzard, you could ask Shawn for his understanding, explain that your team's better than the one that was named in the start etc

460448868 (15:17:35 16/11/2009)
I'll tell you everything wait

460448868 (15:18:00 16/11/2009)
I want you to tell me some things while you don't know what really happened - just so your opinion is neutral

Niral (15:20:01 16/11/2009)
in any case, everyone was aware from the start that we wouldn't be going to any lan events, just the online part

Niral (15:20:18 16/11/2009)
so I dont really see why this would cause any drama :p

460448868 (15:20:24 16/11/2009)
yeah but the online part isn't finished yet

460448868 (15:20:46 16/11/2009)
there's still part II, you don't have to go anyway and still you get money if you win some teams

Niral (15:21:01 16/11/2009)
yeah I imagine thats what the drama is about

Niral (15:21:34 16/11/2009)
since if we continue and dont go to the lan event the lower team will get disqualified

460448868 (15:21:40 16/11/2009)
no you still don't imagine :P but one more question before I tell you

Niral (15:22:19 16/11/2009)
ask aheda

Niral (15:22:22 16/11/2009)
ahead*

460448868 (15:22:40 16/11/2009)
the problem with that other priest

460448868 (15:22:51 16/11/2009)
who was the original player in Kain's team

460448868 (15:22:56 16/11/2009)
what do you know about it?

Niral (15:23:09 16/11/2009)
well I remember asking on vent what happened with that priest

Niral (15:23:43 16/11/2009)
and kain answered that he was an idiot who blamed the team even when he was the one doing mistakes

Niral (15:23:46 16/11/2009)
thats all I know about it

460448868 (15:26:01 16/11/2009)
well, but do you know that there was a conflict when you "borrowed" his account to play on it?

Niral (15:26:59 16/11/2009)
I didnt borrow his account, I borrowed kain's account

Niral (15:27:22 16/11/2009)
kain used ainy's account, and ainy used that priest's account :P

460448868 (15:27:30 16/11/2009)
yes I heard that

Niral (15:27:33 16/11/2009)
for 1 day only though

Niral (15:27:40 16/11/2009)
after that they told me they found new account

Niral (15:27:57 16/11/2009)
cause I wasnt happy with having someone in the team playing from someone's account where the owner doesnt agree

Niral (15:28:17 16/11/2009)
so they said they found other acc

460448868 (15:28:24 16/11/2009)
Yes, that idiot blamed Ainy for stealing his account

460448868 (15:28:27 16/11/2009)
the funny thing is

460448868 (15:28:32 16/11/2009)
I don't know what Kain told him but

460448868 (15:28:39 16/11/2009)
He blamed only Ainy

460448868 (15:28:43 16/11/2009)
:D

Niral (15:28:45 16/11/2009)
lol

Niral (15:28:54 16/11/2009)
everyone was in on this, including me

Niral (15:29:18 16/11/2009)
I mean I knew that the owner didnt want them to play on his account and thats why I asked to use other account next time

Niral (15:29:57 16/11/2009)
I dunno who's idea it was, but it doesnt really matter

460448868 (15:30:08 16/11/2009)
It does

460448868 (15:30:25 16/11/2009)
There's a forum war between Ainy and Kain at the moment

Niral (15:30:52 16/11/2009)
who cares who had the idea, everyone agreed to it

Niral (15:31:32 16/11/2009)
if someone is so sensitive about protecting that priest's rights they should have spoken isntead of playing

460448868 (15:31:45 16/11/2009)
Yes, I agree with you

460448868 (15:32:30 16/11/2009)
Now it's time for some secrets to be revealed

460448868 (15:34:38 16/11/2009)
That other team that is rank 9 is russian yes. That's why Ainy (saying that he wants more teams from russian community to be represented on tourneys, kinda patriotic huh) is bragging so much 'bout discqualifying your team from the ESL

Niral (15:35:12 16/11/2009)
what do you mean bragging about disqualifying us

460448868 (15:35:19 16/11/2009)
sec

460448868 (15:36:22 16/11/2009)
sorry, my bad english =-)

460448868 (15:36:54 16/11/2009)
I meant Ainy is fighting so much for disqualifying your team

Niral (15:38:01 16/11/2009)
well I dunno, as I said it is highly unlikely we will go to lan rounds

Niral (15:38:14 16/11/2009)
I guess someone misinterpreted this

Niral (15:38:55 16/11/2009)
from what i understand

Niral (15:38:57 16/11/2009)
there is another online round

Niral (15:39:00 16/11/2009)
before the lans

460448868 (15:39:06 16/11/2009)
yep

Niral (15:39:36 16/11/2009)
I'm neutral when it comes to playing in this round

Niral (15:39:44 16/11/2009)
if they will want to play I'll play

Niral (15:39:50 16/11/2009)
if not np with me

Niral (15:40:33 16/11/2009)
so anyway, ainy is fighting to not have us play in this round yes?

Niral (15:40:38 16/11/2009)
and kain wants us to play in it

460448868 (15:40:41 16/11/2009)
yes he does

460448868 (15:40:51 16/11/2009)
Kain doesn't want to play with Ainy anymore

Niral (15:40:54 16/11/2009)
ok so that is what the drama is about

460448868 (15:41:05 16/11/2009)
no, still I haven't told you everything

460448868 (15:41:08 16/11/2009)
that russian team

460448868 (15:41:12 16/11/2009)
that is rank 9

460448868 (15:41:29 16/11/2009)
they wintraded to it -_-

Niral (15:41:47 16/11/2009)
how the fuck :|

460448868 (15:41:49 16/11/2009)
their real rating was 1808 if I remember correctly

Niral (15:42:10 16/11/2009)
although I guess its easy during the inactive times on esl realm

460448868 (15:42:46 16/11/2009)
of course it is

Niral (15:43:09 16/11/2009)
is there any proof about the wintrading?

Niral (15:43:21 16/11/2009)
or is it the random accusations every top team gets when they reach high rank?

460448868 (15:43:42 16/11/2009)
let's say the information is 100% correct

460448868 (15:43:56 16/11/2009)
I promised

460448868 (15:44:01 16/11/2009)
not to tell anyone you know :P

Niral (15:44:23 16/11/2009)
the thing is even though its not blizzard, esl must also have rules about this sort of thing

Niral (15:44:41 16/11/2009)
so I'd say if there is proof it needs to reported and investigated

460448868 (15:45:01 16/11/2009)
no, there's no way to prove it to Shawn

460448868 (15:45:48 16/11/2009)
I'll tell you some other day why I'm 100% sure about the wintrade ok? The thing is - I'm going to show our logs to some people who blame Kain for nothing, if you don't mind of course

460448868 (15:46:05 16/11/2009)
And I don't want those people to know where I got the proofs of the wintrade

Niral (15:46:19 16/11/2009)
alright

460448868 (15:47:10 16/11/2009)
So Kain's interest is not to let wintraders go further, I agree with him because it's only a shame, not a single bit of PR

460448868 (15:47:31 16/11/2009)
Also I should mention that Kain has a personal deal with that russian team

460448868 (15:47:36 16/11/2009)
they hate each others :P

460448868 (15:47:45 16/11/2009)
so I don't know the true motives of him

Niral (15:47:50 16/11/2009)
well, for me such things seem very simple

Niral (15:48:10 16/11/2009)
if there is a wintrading issue then someone needs to report it and have shawn investigate it

Niral (15:48:42 16/11/2009)
I have never been a fan of players taking "justice" on their hands

460448868 (15:49:02 16/11/2009)
yes, you see, russian community is very-very complex

Niral (15:49:39 16/11/2009)
without the wintrading issue, I dont see why anyone would feel so strongly about stopping or continuing

Niral (15:50:04 16/11/2009)
so my solution is separate the 2!

460448868 (15:51:18 16/11/2009)
what do you mean by "separate the 2" ?

Niral (15:52:28 16/11/2009)
I mean lets say the rank9 hadn't wintraded, would ainy and kain agree to a course of action?

Niral (15:52:54 16/11/2009)
and at the same time get shawn to investigate the wintrading thing, even if there is no proof

Niral (15:52:58 16/11/2009)
I'm sure he can check server logs

460448868 (15:53:09 16/11/2009)
server logs won't show anything

460448868 (15:53:20 16/11/2009)
the opposing team fought like usual

460448868 (15:53:29 16/11/2009)
so there is some dmg done etc

460448868 (15:53:46 16/11/2009)
I'll explain you some other day as I said

460448868 (15:53:56 16/11/2009)
but the other thing is

Niral (15:54:20 16/11/2009)
it would still show one team losing repeatedly

460448868 (15:54:46 16/11/2009)
Kain was thinking about disqualifying even though he hates rank 9 team and even though they wintraded

460448868 (15:55:30 16/11/2009)
he just wanted them to lick his ass a bit he's such kind of a person you know, I don't know whether you noticed that or not while playing with him

460448868 (15:55:47 16/11/2009)
So he was playing on that team's nerves.... Aswell as on Ainy's

Niral (15:56:02 16/11/2009)
well I noticed he didnt want to finish off teams he hated

Niral (15:56:12 16/11/2009)
he wanted to mock them first

Niral (15:56:28 16/11/2009)
but I couldnt care less about this :P

460448868 (15:56:37 16/11/2009)
yeah right

460448868 (15:56:52 16/11/2009)
but Ainy and that team (with Phenomenon, Shawn's friend in it)

460448868 (15:56:57 16/11/2009)
started to threaten Kain

460448868 (15:57:18 16/11/2009)
Phenomenon wants to write a ticket about Kain's team playing not in original setup

460448868 (15:57:35 16/11/2009)
And Ainy told him that he and you would write a letter to Shawn

460448868 (15:57:41 16/11/2009)
asking him to disqualify you

460448868 (15:57:59 16/11/2009)
in fact, Ainy told Kain that noone cares about what his intentions are

Niral (15:58:12 16/11/2009)
damn

Niral (15:58:31 16/11/2009)
ainy has never been diplomatic

Niral (15:59:10 16/11/2009)
and it screwed things up this time

460448868 (15:59:20 16/11/2009)
that's what I told him

460448868 (16:00:09 16/11/2009)
and in fact - those tards who couldn't even WINTRADE successfully to the top-8 (lawl), why are they so hostile to Kain?

460448868 (16:00:17 16/11/2009)
it's natural that they should beg him

460448868 (16:00:31 16/11/2009)
and they didn't even ask him.... they tried to convince him via Ainy

Niral (16:00:39 16/11/2009)
why the fuck did they discuss this over the forum

Niral (16:00:41 16/11/2009)
instead of icq

460448868 (16:00:49 16/11/2009)
nono

460448868 (16:00:55 16/11/2009)
they discussed it in ICQ

460448868 (16:01:23 16/11/2009)
but then Kain and Ainy got nerdrage and started a forum-war

Niral (16:02:18 16/11/2009)
I see

Niral (16:02:36 16/11/2009)
I havent spoken to ainy or kain in 2 days now

Niral (16:02:40 16/11/2009)
seems it escalated a lot during this time

Niral (16:03:12 16/11/2009)
when I last spoke with ainy it seemed like a minor drama to me

460448868 (16:05:44 16/11/2009)
So what we had 2 days ago:
1) Kain doesn't want to take any actions to help other russian team, because of his personal relation, because of their wintrade and the main reason - too many empty threats.
2) Ainy clearly angry with Kain for not "being diplomatic", willing to promote that other russian team by any means just for the sake of community, for the fame of russians etc, though he was against the idea of wintrading.

Niral (16:06:15 16/11/2009)
everyone seems to be against wintrading, thats common ground at least :p

460448868 (16:06:59 16/11/2009)
Now the things're a bit different - I and some other people convinced Ainy just to leave the decision to Kain

460448868 (16:07:07 16/11/2009)
What's on Kain's mind noone knows

460448868 (16:07:51 16/11/2009)
to sum up everything I said I just want you to state your opinion, who's wrong in the whole situation - Kain or Ainy?

Niral (16:08:14 16/11/2009)
you are not gonna quote me taking sides :P

Niral (16:08:30 16/11/2009)
I think both are overreacting

460448868 (16:10:54 16/11/2009)
But if you were Kain - would you let the team wintrading and threatening you play instead of you just for the sake of "community" and to leave the spot in tournament semi-finals occupied?

Niral (16:13:24 16/11/2009)
honestly I'm no idealist, "community" means jack shit to me :P

Niral (16:13:51 16/11/2009)
but wintrading is a serious thing that needs to be investigated

460448868 (16:14:51 16/11/2009)
alright

Niral (16:15:12 16/11/2009)
I'd report it in an instant, but I dont think I would try to take any action myself

Niral (16:15:56 16/11/2009)
thing is, wintrading is a bigger issue

Niral (16:17:02 16/11/2009)
its not an issue only with this tournament

Niral (16:17:11 16/11/2009)
its issue in ladders, its issue in other tournaments

460448868 (16:17:41 16/11/2009)
I agree with you.

Thanks for the conversation, mate. I'm going to post it on our russian forum, because both Kain and Ainy are saying different things and I hope this ICQ log will make something more clear.

I hope that's not a problem?

Niral (16:18:48 16/11/2009)
yeah its np, I just hope you will give the full picture and not cut my quotes to seem I have a different opinion :P